The founder of an LGBTQ+ group who gave talks in schools said his alleged conversations about kidnapping and sexually assaulting children were “fantasy” and “taboo” and that he was “smoking too much”.
Stephen Ireland, 40, who co-founded Pride in Surrey in 2018, and David Sutton, 27, a volunteer with the organisation, are accused of “targeting children for their sexual proclivities” between 2022 and 2024, prosecutors say.
They are charged with a total of 38 offences between them, including conspiring to sexually assault children, arranging the commission of child sex offences and kidnap.
However, Ireland told Guildford Crown Court on Tuesday that there were “no actual plans to do anything”.
The defendant said: “Me and (Sutton) were smoking too much and your thoughts run away with a fantasy taboo chat.”
Alex Krikler, defending Ireland, asked about WhatsApp messages from 2022, during which the pair allegedly spoke of “snatching” or “kidnapping” a schoolchild.
Prosecutor Isabel Delamere previously said the conversations were beyond fantasy and jurors were told that the pair discussed targeting children outside school gates while pretending to be a talent coach or music manager and how to avoid CCTV.
Ireland said: “It’s a fake taboo chat between David and I.”
He told jurors that he visited schools to give talks about the LGBTQ+ community, but that was in a “professional” capacity with staff present and that he had no intention of doing anything unlawful.
Ireland also spoke of his “regret” over messaging about sexually abusing two children, including a girl aged six, saying they were “stupid conversations” and that nothing happened.
He said there was no intention to visit a swimming pool to “perve”, as prosecutors allege, saying that he would not go there because he is “body conscious” and that the conversation was merely “role-play”.
Some discussions between the two defendants were about “daddy-play” with someone else being submissive and role-playing as a younger person, jurors heard.
Ireland is solely charged with 21 of the 38 offences, including one count of raping a child, three counts of causing a child under 13 to engage in sexual activity and one count of sexual assault on a child.
The defendants are jointly charged with 13 offences, including six counts of conspiracy to sexually assault a child, three counts of arranging the commission of a child sex offence and one count of conspiracy to kidnap a child.
Sutton is also charged with another four offences, including three counts of making indecent photographs of children.
The trial continues.