On Family Day, leaders of the four main Ontario political parties held their second (and last) debate of the provincial campaign. Here’s what analysts Bruce Deachman, Brigitte Pellerin and Christina Spencer thought of their arguments.
Who won the debate?
Brigitte Pellerin (Ottawa writer): Liberal Bonnie Crombie was aggressive in her criticism of PC Leader Doug Ford and landed a number of punches. She did not let Ford aw-shucks his way out. She would have been stronger if she hadn’t needed to read her notes so much. But she rattled Ford pretty hard, so she wins.
NDP Leader Marit Stiles failed to give short, clear answers to simple questions and is this debate’s loser. I liked Green Leader Mike Schreiner asking why the Ontario Place spa needs more than $2 billion in subsidies if the project is as great as Ford says it is.
Bruce Deachman (Ottawa Citizen columnist): Bonnie Crombie. She was more effective than the other opposition leaders in challenging Doug Ford, and took the gloves off in a way she hadn’t during Friday’s Northern Ontario debate. Calling Ford’s health-care policies an “abysmal failure,” seemed to stick, as well as challenging him on his plan for a “fantasy” tunnel under Highway 401. I wish, though, that she hadn’t sounded like a patronizing Grade 3 teacher almost every time she spoke directly to viewers.
Christina Spencer (editorial pages editor, Ottawa Citizen): Maybe we should talk about who lost. I watched the first debate last week and thought Liberal Leader Bonnie Crombie had won it: well-briefed, authoritative, assertive. But I felt she lost this second round, and that’s significant because of who she lost it to: the NDP’s Marit Stiles.
This time, Crombie came across as edgy and performative; her aggressiveness was often annoying. Stiles — many of whose policies I don’t necessarily support — was calm, in command of her facts and unruffled. If we are to believe the polls, these two leaders are currently fighting for Official Opposition status against what seems like an unstoppable PC machine. (Crombie seemed to acknowledge this at the end, bluntly asking NDP voters to switch allegiance and back her.) So it mattered for Stiles that she do well in the second debate, and she did.
What did you learn that surprised you?
Pellerin: I was floored by the way all leaders answered the question about their first job and what it taught them. It was a rare opportunity to see the humans behind the politicians, and I for one enjoyed seeing each of them come through as exactly who they are. They smiled and spoke like normal people. I did not know they had that spontaneity inside them.
I was also pleasantly surprised that the format of the debate allowed us to hear the views of every leader on issues that matter, including some that aren’t in their platforms. That’s good for democracy.
Deachman: Bonnie Crombie lied about her age when she was 14 in order to get a job at Woolco, which is kind of admirable. On the other hand, she claims to like pickleball “because it’s popular,” which isn’t.
Spencer: Speak for yourself on pickleball, Bruce. I also liked learning that Bonnie Crombie was a cashier at Woolco at age 14; Marit Stiles was a swimming instructor; Doug Ford worked at Canada Packers; and Mike Schreiner grew up on a farm (before starting a youthful business mowing lawns). Later, they were all asked what they’d do with a weekend off, and what sort of meal they’d cook for each other. Nice touches, and a reminder that politicians are sometimes just like you and me.
Was there a turnaround moment, a knockout punch, a particular zinger that will stay with you?
Pellerin: When Doug Ford was claiming credit for hiring former federal health minister Dr. Jane Philpott to address the primary care crisis and doctor shortage, Bonnie Crombie skewered him with a pointed “Yah, you had to hire a Liberal.” She also got him hard with the “fantasy tunnel” under the 401 in Toronto that is costly and, in her words, “dumb.”
In the public safety segment, Ford was effective in describing the problem of repeat offenders who joke with the cops arresting them that they’ll be back out before the cops end their shift.
Deachman: No knockout punches. There was maybe a slow drip as Ford was challenged by all three opposition leaders on one thing after another and didn’t respond all that well. For instance, on the $2.2-billion redevelopment of the Ontario Place site that will favour the Therme spa, he only said that it would be the most popular destination in the province. When confronted on his promise to build the tunnel under Highway 401 without a cost estimate or feasibility study, his response was to essentially ask the other leaders: Well, what would you do? And when asked how long until all Ontarians will have a family doctor, he only said that no other government has invested as much in health care as his has. But none of these exchanges, I suspect, will change much.
Spencer:These folks are too politically savvy to be rhetorically knocked out by another leader. But there were a few well-targeted punches. As Brigitte mentioned, Doug Ford’s boast of hiring former federal cabinet minister Dr. Jane Philpott to help resolve the family-doctor crisis prompted the best line of the night: “You had to hire a Liberal!” Mike Schreiner managed to make Bonnie Crombie squirm by asking pointedly when people were actually going to see a fully costed program from the Liberals. And on government policty to allow for the eviction of homeless people from tents, it was Schreiner who spoke passionately against such action, saying “We’re better than that.” (Or at least, he hopes we are.)
— Brigitte Pellerin is an Ottawa writer. Bruce Deachman is the Ottawa Citizen’s local columnist. Christina Spencer is the opinions editor at the Ottawa Citizen.