As he recounts it, the conversation which mapped out James McCormick’s journey towards this point was had while a pupil at Dalriada School in Ballymoney.
It went something along these lines and occurred when the younger McCormick was performing as a useful back-rower with placekicking also featuring as part of his arsenal.
“I was asked, ‘What height’s your dad?’
“And I was like, ‘He’s not any taller than me’.
“So, then I was told, ‘You’re not going to grow any bigger, so your best chance is in there (at hooker)’.
“So, I went for it.”
In fairness, McCormick quickly points out that it wasn’t a throwaway chat with someone just trying to fill a place in the team for any given game, this was some proper advice from a person well-versed in the game, namely former Ulster and Ireland prop Bryan Young who, as it happens, is now with Dalriada.
It was a pivotal moment for McCormick and the guidance received was sound, the school pupil dedicating himself to working out how to play a new position and with Young’s guidance gradually moving to the point — at 17 — when he was identified as good enough to make Ulster’s Academy for the following year.
“‘Bear’ (Young) was massive for me,” the 22-year-old insists.
“When I was at Dalriada, he was still an Ulster coach in the Academy and he was the one who changed me from No.8 to hooker while at school.
“I never really played much at hooker at school but he was working away with me from when I was in fourth year, and then I was very lucky, he got the job in Dalriada and then me and him were so tight together and he would have worked endlessly with me every day.
“He gave me advice as well as technical stuff and personal stuff.
“I definitely couldn’t have been here without him.
“I had a lot to learn and not having played it through school, it wasn’t until I was Under-18s Schools at Ulster, that summer I played it, and then my first full season was when I got here into the Academy.”
As for the placekicking, well, something had to give.
“That’s the first thing I was told to give up and just keep practising my throwing,” laughs McCormick, who has been handed a second successive starting shirt on Saturday night at Cardiff, a week after scoring twice against the Ospreys.
He was certainly on a steep learning curve but clearly Young’s intuition was on the money as McCormick improved enough turning out for Ballymena to come onto Richie Murphy’s radar when he was with Ireland Under-20s.
“So, I had changed over to hooker,” explains McCormick, who grew up on a farm near Ballycastle and was introduced to the game when playing minis at Ballymoney Rugby Club.
“And I played at Ballymena and the coaches here were looking at me at that stage and reckoned my scrummaging and darts weren’t great.
“Then that year at Ballymena led into what turned out to be the (Ireland) 20s and that time just gave me a bit more credit and got me in the system, so it was important for me.”
He became a regular for the Under-20s and was a central part of their Grand Slam success in 2022, starting in all five games; not bad for someone who had so little mileage behind him wearing the No.2 jersey and who had made rapid progress to achieve this level of recognition.
National attention had not only meant working with then head coach Murphy but also his assistant Jimmy Duffy both of whom are now, of course, overseeing day to day activities at Ravenhill.
“Jimmy at the 20s really worked with me a lot and I really like him as a coach and there’s no beating around the bush with him, he tells you how it is and how he wants it, and Richie is the same.
“It’s the way I like to work, I’ll tell the coaches, ‘Just tell me it straight’ because it’s the quickest way to learn in this environment,” explains McCormick.
Indeed, this prompts a gentle reminder of Nick Timoney’s try against Connacht when though McCormick’s dart was fine, he wasn’t exactly operating within the laws as the hooker’s feet were planted well infield and away from the touchline, though this wasn’t picked up at the time by the officials.
“I did get a wee bit of stick for that,” admits McCormick.
“I didn’t even notice what I was doing but I was told to make sure I’m aware (in the future) where my feet are.”
He is very much part of the new wave of Ulster players who have come through the Ireland U20s route who are either bubbling under or making the breakthrough and there is little doubt that if he can stay injury-free — he has already experienced lengthy absences out with shoulder issues after Ireland U20s — there is a bright future for him at the province.
“Carsey (Ben Carson), Jude (Postlethwaite), Reuben (Crothers), Scotty (Wilson) and (James) McNabney, there are loads of us and it’s unreal.
“They’re your mates and you’ve known each other from when you were 15 and then you didn’t speak as you were at different schools.
“Then you come through and do everything together and it’s nice to have them alongside you.”
He earned a first start at Loftus Versfeld — Saturday nnight is only his third from six as a starter — against a formidable pack put out by the Bulls but relished the experience despite the scoreboard and then, last week, made a much more favourable impression by claiming two tries though this was somewhat overshadowed by Jacob Stockdale’s brace.
“Richie was just like, ‘The first thing, you carry the ball, you have a go’, and I’m glad it came off,” he explains of the tap and go penalty which he took to himself to earn his second of the night.
For the moment, McCormick has grasped his opportunity with both hands but realises the situation is bound to alter when both Rob Herring and Tom Stewart return from injury.
“You know that’s coming and all I can do is play well and work as hard as I can, and I don’t mind if I have to go and play club rugby (at City of Armagh) because other guys are playing.
“All I can do, and control, is myself as I can’t control what they’re doing.
“I’ve had plenty of dark days,” he adds referring to his shoulder problems. “But I think that’s what made me.”
True, and that advice to switch position has helped too.